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	<title>Comments on: Twilight&#8217;s Bella Swan is a Feminist&#8217;s Nightmare</title>
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		<title>By: KKM</title>
		<link>http://screencrave.com/2009-11-11/twilights-bella-swan-is-a-feminists-nightmare/comment-page-2/#comment-79510</link>
		<dc:creator>KKM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 23:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://screencrave.com/?p=47962#comment-79510</guid>
		<description>Umm, not quite 300 years... more like 150. Some excellent points, though - I agree with you about this series. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm, not quite 300 years&#8230; more like 150. Some excellent points, though &#8211; I agree with you about this series.</p>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://screencrave.com/2009-11-11/twilights-bella-swan-is-a-feminists-nightmare/comment-page-1/#comment-77884</link>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 04:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree utterly with what you have said. 
 
Twilight could, however, have been saved it Stephanie Meyer had actually killied both Edward and Bella off in the last book; if the fight with the Volturi had actually occured, and neither survived. It would have been a better ending, by a long way, and us literature types could at least have the excuse that their love- like all unhealthy love- cannot possibly last.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree utterly with what you have said. </p>
<p>Twilight could, however, have been saved it Stephanie Meyer had actually killied both Edward and Bella off in the last book; if the fight with the Volturi had actually occured, and neither survived. It would have been a better ending, by a long way, and us literature types could at least have the excuse that their love- like all unhealthy love- cannot possibly last.</p>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://screencrave.com/2009-11-11/twilights-bella-swan-is-a-feminists-nightmare/comment-page-3/#comment-77883</link>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 04:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://screencrave.com/?p=47962#comment-77883</guid>
		<description>Your argument hinges on the issue of choice. 
 
If this was a real person, that truly existed, then what you are saying is completely correct; those of us- in this case, me- who are lambasting Bella as unfeminist are being restrictive. However, Bella is not a real person; Bella is a character in a novel, and as such her reactions to certain things are contrived by Stephanie Meyer to achieve different forms. For example, with Edward watching her sleep, any- and every- girl should be absolutely more horrified of his invasion of her privacy than Bella is. When Edward leaves Forkes, and goes through her things to remove things that will remind her of him, she should be beyond angry for what equates both to thievery and trespass. When Edward removes the car from her engine, so that she cannot visit Jacob, he is being more a parent than a boyfriend, and that is something left over from Victorian England and extreme patriarchy.  
 
The issue here, something you&#039;ve missed, is that Bella didn&#039;t make those choices, Stephanie Meyer did; hence the argument the author is evincing. To tell us that we, by disapproving of the author&#039;s choices, are being antifeminist is a little childish; it feels like the rant of a three year old, crying for their rattle back. We have taken something from you here; what, exactly? The enjoyment of trash fiction? There&#039;s plenty of it online, of you want to look. It is only because Twilight is so widespread that we question it&#039;s theme, and dislike its main character and her portrail of feminine love. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your argument hinges on the issue of choice. </p>
<p>If this was a real person, that truly existed, then what you are saying is completely correct; those of us- in this case, me- who are lambasting Bella as unfeminist are being restrictive. However, Bella is not a real person; Bella is a character in a novel, and as such her reactions to certain things are contrived by Stephanie Meyer to achieve different forms. For example, with Edward watching her sleep, any- and every- girl should be absolutely more horrified of his invasion of her privacy than Bella is. When Edward leaves Forkes, and goes through her things to remove things that will remind her of him, she should be beyond angry for what equates both to thievery and trespass. When Edward removes the car from her engine, so that she cannot visit Jacob, he is being more a parent than a boyfriend, and that is something left over from Victorian England and extreme patriarchy.  </p>
<p>The issue here, something you&#039;ve missed, is that Bella didn&#039;t make those choices, Stephanie Meyer did; hence the argument the author is evincing. To tell us that we, by disapproving of the author&#039;s choices, are being antifeminist is a little childish; it feels like the rant of a three year old, crying for their rattle back. We have taken something from you here; what, exactly? The enjoyment of trash fiction? There&#039;s plenty of it online, of you want to look. It is only because Twilight is so widespread that we question it&#039;s theme, and dislike its main character and her portrail of feminine love.</p>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://screencrave.com/2009-11-11/twilights-bella-swan-is-a-feminists-nightmare/comment-page-3/#comment-77880</link>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 04:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://screencrave.com/?p=47962#comment-77880</guid>
		<description>&quot;Humans are portrayed by the misanthropic author (Meyer) as fragile and helpless, not women. Do Alice, Rosalie, Victoria, or Jane need to be protected all the time?&quot; 
 
Rosalie and Alice&#039;s origin stories both involve them being victimised by men, and both being utterly unable to avoid it; in Rosalie&#039;s case, she was gifted with vampirism by a man, as was Alice. Jane is a character ruled over by a man; Victoria goes berzerk when Edward kills her man. In EACH of these situations men are portrayed as being greater/more powerful than women.  
 
It is reasonable to respect a real person&#039;s choices, but a character in a novel so wide spread cannot be held up as real; therefore, we can most definately question why the author chose- not the character, Stephanie Meyer- to make Bella so utter anodyne and anemic, and so willing to relinquish herself for what is the possiblility of being an eternal teenager with a hollywood teen hearthrob. Bella is a nightmare to feminism, because she makes it attractive to young women to subsume their own desires completely in order to attract a man who is so effortlessly wealthy/good at everything that no matter what she cannot compete or compare? And that is just the first step; not only does she lack character outside of her relationships with men, when in them she assumes half their character for her own; she is different with Jacob then with Edward.  
 
In short, the book and movie series is- in addition to being poorly written- to the severe detriment of young women who grow up thinking that Bella&#039;s expectations are realistic, and are the complete antithesis of true feminism.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Humans are portrayed by the misanthropic author (Meyer) as fragile and helpless, not women. Do Alice, Rosalie, Victoria, or Jane need to be protected all the time?&quot; </p>
<p>Rosalie and Alice&#039;s origin stories both involve them being victimised by men, and both being utterly unable to avoid it; in Rosalie&#039;s case, she was gifted with vampirism by a man, as was Alice. Jane is a character ruled over by a man; Victoria goes berzerk when Edward kills her man. In EACH of these situations men are portrayed as being greater/more powerful than women.  </p>
<p>It is reasonable to respect a real person&#039;s choices, but a character in a novel so wide spread cannot be held up as real; therefore, we can most definately question why the author chose- not the character, Stephanie Meyer- to make Bella so utter anodyne and anemic, and so willing to relinquish herself for what is the possiblility of being an eternal teenager with a hollywood teen hearthrob. Bella is a nightmare to feminism, because she makes it attractive to young women to subsume their own desires completely in order to attract a man who is so effortlessly wealthy/good at everything that no matter what she cannot compete or compare? And that is just the first step; not only does she lack character outside of her relationships with men, when in them she assumes half their character for her own; she is different with Jacob then with Edward.  </p>
<p>In short, the book and movie series is- in addition to being poorly written- to the severe detriment of young women who grow up thinking that Bella&#039;s expectations are realistic, and are the complete antithesis of true feminism.</p>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://screencrave.com/2009-11-11/twilights-bella-swan-is-a-feminists-nightmare/comment-page-2/#comment-77879</link>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 03:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://screencrave.com/?p=47962#comment-77879</guid>
		<description>I wish I could just submit the word &#039;irrelevant&#039; under your comment, but the fury is boiling within me at your inadequacy. 
 
A healthy relationship is one in which there is an equal dialogue between the two that exist within it, and no member involved does anything that places the other in a situation where pain is unavoidable. Whether or not it was Edward&#039;s choice or not, he placed Bella under all kinds of emotional blackmail, and when Bella fell pregnant she did exactly the same to him. Now, I can understand a pedant&#039;s desire to be exact, but perhaps you need to be better aquainted with your material before you start criticising it; it is much easier for you, as her article is merely a scroll upwards. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish I could just submit the word &#039;irrelevant&#039; under your comment, but the fury is boiling within me at your inadequacy. </p>
<p>A healthy relationship is one in which there is an equal dialogue between the two that exist within it, and no member involved does anything that places the other in a situation where pain is unavoidable. Whether or not it was Edward&#039;s choice or not, he placed Bella under all kinds of emotional blackmail, and when Bella fell pregnant she did exactly the same to him. Now, I can understand a pedant&#039;s desire to be exact, but perhaps you need to be better aquainted with your material before you start criticising it; it is much easier for you, as her article is merely a scroll upwards.</p>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://screencrave.com/2009-11-11/twilights-bella-swan-is-a-feminists-nightmare/comment-page-2/#comment-77878</link>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 03:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://screencrave.com/?p=47962#comment-77878</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry- not really- but isn&#039;t that exactly the problem? 
 
The target of this article is Bella, not Edward, regardless of what you seem to think; perhaps, like so many of the other supporters of this ridiculous trilogy of quasi-fiction, you need, instead of asking the author of this article if they read the books- which I have no doubt they have, as if I am going to criticise something I make sure I know as much as I can about it first- you should try reading their critism first, hmm? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m sorry- not really- but isn&#039;t that exactly the problem? </p>
<p>The target of this article is Bella, not Edward, regardless of what you seem to think; perhaps, like so many of the other supporters of this ridiculous trilogy of quasi-fiction, you need, instead of asking the author of this article if they read the books- which I have no doubt they have, as if I am going to criticise something I make sure I know as much as I can about it first- you should try reading their critism first, hmm?</p>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://screencrave.com/2009-11-11/twilights-bella-swan-is-a-feminists-nightmare/comment-page-2/#comment-77877</link>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 03:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://screencrave.com/?p=47962#comment-77877</guid>
		<description>do you deny that something was present between them- Jacob and Bella- during New Moon? If not, why then does she fall to pieces when he joins the pack of werewolves? A lesser extent than she did with Edward, but she still went almost stalkery, given that he for a period of a few weeks, wanted nothing to do with her; it is, in a way, not dissimilar to the way she persued Edward at the start of the first novel.  
 
Secondly, you are also wrong with the claim that Edward has had no other relationships; the leader of the Denali coven had designs on him that never eventuated. Just because one happens to like the Bella- Edward paring does not mean one can discount evidence to the contrary.  
 
Finally, while it is somewhat of a trope that humans are more breakable than vampires, I don&#039;t buy into this as a legitimate plot device. The original vampire stories displayed vampires as strong at night, but weak during the day; the creation of a vampiric ethos as ridiculously overpowered- so much so as to blow Anne Rice, a legitimate vampire author, completely away- as Stephanie Mayer&#039;s vampires is a plot choice, one perpetrated by an author with a conservative background, if not agenda. Conservatism has always been bound up in issues of men being greater, stronger, better than women; Twilight is- and would- not out of place in a 1950&#039;s world, if one only edited out the sex scenes. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>do you deny that something was present between them- Jacob and Bella- during New Moon? If not, why then does she fall to pieces when he joins the pack of werewolves? A lesser extent than she did with Edward, but she still went almost stalkery, given that he for a period of a few weeks, wanted nothing to do with her; it is, in a way, not dissimilar to the way she persued Edward at the start of the first novel.  </p>
<p>Secondly, you are also wrong with the claim that Edward has had no other relationships; the leader of the Denali coven had designs on him that never eventuated. Just because one happens to like the Bella- Edward paring does not mean one can discount evidence to the contrary.  </p>
<p>Finally, while it is somewhat of a trope that humans are more breakable than vampires, I don&#039;t buy into this as a legitimate plot device. The original vampire stories displayed vampires as strong at night, but weak during the day; the creation of a vampiric ethos as ridiculously overpowered- so much so as to blow Anne Rice, a legitimate vampire author, completely away- as Stephanie Mayer&#039;s vampires is a plot choice, one perpetrated by an author with a conservative background, if not agenda. Conservatism has always been bound up in issues of men being greater, stronger, better than women; Twilight is- and would- not out of place in a 1950&#039;s world, if one only edited out the sex scenes.</p>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://screencrave.com/2009-11-11/twilights-bella-swan-is-a-feminists-nightmare/comment-page-2/#comment-77876</link>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 03:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://screencrave.com/?p=47962#comment-77876</guid>
		<description>You are awake that you are confirming the author&#039;s point here, aren&#039;t you? 
 
Fairytales have a long and checkered history with patriarchy; the women in them need men, and are basically plot devices for the men within them to save the day. If you disbelieve me, have a serious look at the Brother&#039;s Grimm versions of the classic stories, after having a good hard look in the mirror and realising, hey, maybe you&#039;re not all that 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are awake that you are confirming the author&#039;s point here, aren&#039;t you? </p>
<p>Fairytales have a long and checkered history with patriarchy; the women in them need men, and are basically plot devices for the men within them to save the day. If you disbelieve me, have a serious look at the Brother&#039;s Grimm versions of the classic stories, after having a good hard look in the mirror and realising, hey, maybe you&#039;re not all that</p>
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		<title>By: Samantha Hutton</title>
		<link>http://screencrave.com/2009-11-11/twilights-bella-swan-is-a-feminists-nightmare/comment-page-3/#comment-73661</link>
		<dc:creator>Samantha Hutton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 05:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://screencrave.com/?p=47962#comment-73661</guid>
		<description>you guys take this shit way to seriously</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you guys take this shit way to seriously</p>
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		<title>By: Katharine</title>
		<link>http://screencrave.com/2009-11-11/twilights-bella-swan-is-a-feminists-nightmare/comment-page-2/#comment-72074</link>
		<dc:creator>Katharine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 00:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://screencrave.com/?p=47962#comment-72074</guid>
		<description>My Dear, you need to learn how to spell before you post anything. Your misspellings and text speak experiments do not make you look cool. You end up making a gigantic fool of yourself. How old are you? 13? 
The article&#039;s author did not misconceptualize (that&#039;s how you spell it) Bella. On the contrary, she was rather kind in her assessment. In my book, there is absolutely nothing that redeems Bella - even her name is a crappy metaphor! You call her bright and smart? I would not call somebody who constantly endangers herself bright. She follows her intuition? Really?!? If she actually did that, she would stay far, far away from Edward who after all wants to kill her right after their initial encounter.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Dear, you need to learn how to spell before you post anything. Your misspellings and text speak experiments do not make you look cool. You end up making a gigantic fool of yourself. How old are you? 13?<br />
The article&#039;s author did not misconceptualize (that&#039;s how you spell it) Bella. On the contrary, she was rather kind in her assessment. In my book, there is absolutely nothing that redeems Bella &#8211; even her name is a crappy metaphor! You call her bright and smart? I would not call somebody who constantly endangers herself bright. She follows her intuition? Really?!? If she actually did that, she would stay far, far away from Edward who after all wants to kill her right after their initial encounter.</p>
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		<title>By: KB Marx</title>
		<link>http://screencrave.com/2009-11-11/twilights-bella-swan-is-a-feminists-nightmare/comment-page-3/#comment-71640</link>
		<dc:creator>KB Marx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://screencrave.com/?p=47962#comment-71640</guid>
		<description>Calling this a &quot;nightmare to feminism&quot; is a bit exaggerated.  
&quot;Typically when you think of women being objectified in film it has to do with sex or nudity. In this case it has to do with both Edward and Jacob&#8217;s constant coddling of Bella. It&#8217;s as if she&#8217;s a fragile flower who always has to be protected&quot; 
Bella is protected and sheltered all the time more because of her humanity than her gender. She was physically in danger and she needed to be protected not because she&#039;s a woman but because she&#039;s a human. Humans are portrayed by the misanthropic author (Meyer) as fragile and helpless, not women. Do Alice, Rosalie, Victoria, or Jane need to be protected all the time?  
 
&quot;In New Moon when he takes a leave of absence what&#8217;s a girl to do? Find something in them self? NO! Find another man!  Enter Jacob, another troubled male figure who helps her cope with her loss and then leaves her hanging.&quot; 
In New Moon Bella actually dealt with the depression a lot better than Edward did. Edward curled up in a ball and did nothing for 7 months, whereas Bella tried to overcome the depression, though she failed she at least put in an effort. When Bella is changed into a vampire, she&#039;s on equal grounds with Edward physically and isn&#039;t always protected. I don&#039;t think your points are wrong, but this is just the other side of the argument.  
 
&quot;She has no identity of her own, and literally loses her mind without the constant influence of vampire boy. At the end of Twilight, when Edward attempts to leave her in the hospital, she almost gives herself a stroke. Again in New Moon, when he tells her he has to go (because he&#8217;s a danger to her), she&#8217;s shown on the ground in the fetal position, looking a junkie whose about to kill herself.&quot; 
Jacob fell into a state of depression when Bella married Edward, and Edward curled up into a ball for 7 months, fed off rats, and tried to kill himself without Bella. I don&#039;t think its Bella without a sense of identity, I think all of these characters lack depth.  
 
&quot;Bella isn&#8217;t a strong character and shouldn&#8217;t be revered for her behavior in these films. She&#8217;s nothing more than a shadow for a man rather than a pillar for herself and not only is that dangerous but it&#8217;s a discouraging message to send to girls.&quot; 
So the point of these books to tell a story or to show the ideal role model?  
 
Anyways, I don&#039;t find Twilight a &quot;nightmare&quot; to feminism, it&#039;s definitely misanthropic but not misogynistic. The point of feminism is to give women equality right? To view women as equal to men. If you tell a woman she can&#039;t do something because she&#039;s a woman, then that&#039;s sexist and &quot;anti-feminist.&quot; Bella made the choice to be a mother and a wife and to not go to college, no one forced her into anything. In fact, Edward constantly asked her to apply to more schools, and experience her life as a human instead of giving up her mortality. Bella chose to be what she is, she&#039;s not a role model, she&#039;s just making her choices for her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Calling this a &quot;nightmare to feminism&quot; is a bit exaggerated.<br />
&quot;Typically when you think of women being objectified in film it has to do with sex or nudity. In this case it has to do with both Edward and Jacob&rsquo;s constant coddling of Bella. It&rsquo;s as if she&rsquo;s a fragile flower who always has to be protected&quot;<br />
Bella is protected and sheltered all the time more because of her humanity than her gender. She was physically in danger and she needed to be protected not because she&#039;s a woman but because she&#039;s a human. Humans are portrayed by the misanthropic author (Meyer) as fragile and helpless, not women. Do Alice, Rosalie, Victoria, or Jane need to be protected all the time?  </p>
<p>&quot;In New Moon when he takes a leave of absence what&rsquo;s a girl to do? Find something in them self? NO! Find another man!  Enter Jacob, another troubled male figure who helps her cope with her loss and then leaves her hanging.&quot;<br />
In New Moon Bella actually dealt with the depression a lot better than Edward did. Edward curled up in a ball and did nothing for 7 months, whereas Bella tried to overcome the depression, though she failed she at least put in an effort. When Bella is changed into a vampire, she&#039;s on equal grounds with Edward physically and isn&#039;t always protected. I don&#039;t think your points are wrong, but this is just the other side of the argument.  </p>
<p>&quot;She has no identity of her own, and literally loses her mind without the constant influence of vampire boy. At the end of Twilight, when Edward attempts to leave her in the hospital, she almost gives herself a stroke. Again in New Moon, when he tells her he has to go (because he&rsquo;s a danger to her), she&rsquo;s shown on the ground in the fetal position, looking a junkie whose about to kill herself.&quot;<br />
Jacob fell into a state of depression when Bella married Edward, and Edward curled up into a ball for 7 months, fed off rats, and tried to kill himself without Bella. I don&#039;t think its Bella without a sense of identity, I think all of these characters lack depth.  </p>
<p>&quot;Bella isn&rsquo;t a strong character and shouldn&rsquo;t be revered for her behavior in these films. She&rsquo;s nothing more than a shadow for a man rather than a pillar for herself and not only is that dangerous but it&rsquo;s a discouraging message to send to girls.&quot;<br />
So the point of these books to tell a story or to show the ideal role model?  </p>
<p>Anyways, I don&#039;t find Twilight a &quot;nightmare&quot; to feminism, it&#039;s definitely misanthropic but not misogynistic. The point of feminism is to give women equality right? To view women as equal to men. If you tell a woman she can&#039;t do something because she&#039;s a woman, then that&#039;s sexist and &quot;anti-feminist.&quot; Bella made the choice to be a mother and a wife and to not go to college, no one forced her into anything. In fact, Edward constantly asked her to apply to more schools, and experience her life as a human instead of giving up her mortality. Bella chose to be what she is, she&#039;s not a role model, she&#039;s just making her choices for her.</p>
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		<title>By: dracona357</title>
		<link>http://screencrave.com/2009-11-11/twilights-bella-swan-is-a-feminists-nightmare/comment-page-1/#comment-68617</link>
		<dc:creator>dracona357</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://screencrave.com/?p=47962#comment-68617</guid>
		<description>Getting her pregnant was a surprise to both of them, and getting her guts ripped out carrying the baby to term was Bella&#039;s decision, backed up by Rosalie, and to a smaller extent, Alice and Esme. As for Edward&#039;s family, he trusted Carlisle to keep the others in line. 
 
IRT _Little Women_, I could not read that flock of fluttering twits without gagging and throwing the book across the room. My mother handed me her Nancy Drews after that, and basically gave up on breaking me of being a tomboy. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting her pregnant was a surprise to both of them, and getting her guts ripped out carrying the baby to term was Bella&#039;s decision, backed up by Rosalie, and to a smaller extent, Alice and Esme. As for Edward&#039;s family, he trusted Carlisle to keep the others in line. </p>
<p>IRT _Little Women_, I could not read that flock of fluttering twits without gagging and throwing the book across the room. My mother handed me her Nancy Drews after that, and basically gave up on breaking me of being a tomboy.</p>
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